>>> TONIGHT, THE NEW YORK LED PUSH TO SHAKE UP POLICE DEPARTMENT NATIONWIDE BY HIRING MORE WOMEN AS COPS.

MEET THE FORMER POLICE CHIEF BEHIND THIS GROUND BREAKING PROJECT.

WHO BELIEVES GREATER REPRESENTATION IS KEY TO BETTER POLICING.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD IN 2020, MANY LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERTS BEGAN CALLING FOR A CHANGE IN THE WAY POLICE DEPARTMENTS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY OPERATE.

ONE SESSION TO IMPROVE POLICE DEPARTMENTS, HIRE MORE WOMEN.

CURRENTLY WOMEN MAKE UP JUST 12% OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN THE COUNTRY, AND 3% OF POLICE LEADERSHIP.

A COALITION OF CURRENT AND FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS IN CONJUNCTION WITH RESEARCHERS AT NYU WANT TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER SIGNIFICANTLY.

THEY'RE CALLING THEIR EFFORT THE 30 FOR 30 INITIATIVE, AND THEIR AIM IS TO HAVE WOMEN MAKE UP 30% OF NEW POLICE RECRUITS BY 2030.

THEY BELIEVE WOMEN WILL HELP OFFICERS DEAL WITH ISSUES LIKE EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE, CONFLICT WITH DIVERSE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND THE SOMETIMES TOXIC CULTURE OF POLICE STATIONS.

SO JOINING ME NOW TO TALK ABOUT THE PROGRAM AND ITS GOALS ARE TWO OF THE COFOUNDER OF THE 30 BY 30 INITIATIVE.

FIRST, YVONNE ROMAN, A RETIRED FORMER CHIEF OF THE NEWARK POLICE DEPARTMENT.

YVONNE, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US, JENNA.

>> AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME MAUREEN McGUF.

SHE IS A CHIEF OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AT THE NYU'S SCHOOL OF LAW'S POLICING PROJECT.

THAT IS QUITE THE TITLE.

MAUREEN, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> SO, FIRST OFF, MAUREEN, AND I'LL JUST GO RIGHT BACK TO YOU WITH THE FIRST QUESTION.

AS I MENTIONED, THE 30 FOR 30 INITIATIVE IS THE INTENT TO HAVE AT LEAST 30% OF NEW POLICE RECRUITS BY 2030, BUT I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT HOW THE INITIATIVE CAME ABOUT AND WHY THE FOCUS ON WOMEN.

>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, FIRST I WANT TO CLARIFY, TOO.

OUR GOALS ARE TO GET TO 30% OF WOMEN AND POLICE RECRUIT CLASSES BY 2030, BUT WE'RE ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY WORKING TO ADDRESS POLICIES, INHERENT BIAS SO WE'RE WELCOMING WOMEN IN A WORKPLACE THAT'S SET UP TO SUPPORT THEIR SUCCESS.

AND IN TERMS OF WHY WE'RE FOCUSING ON WOMEN, THERE'S JUST A GROWING BODY OF LITERATURE OUT THERE THAT DEMONSTRATES THE UNIQUE VALUE OF WOMEN OFFICERS.

THEY USE LESS FORCE AND EXCESSIVE FORCE.

THEY'RE NAME IN THE COMMUNITY COMPLAINTS LESS OFTEN.

THEY'RE PERCEIVED AS MORE TRUSTWORTHY BY DIVERSE COMMUNITIES, GET BETTER OUTCOMES FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME.

THEY FIRED THEIR SERVICE WEAPON LESS OFTEN, MAKE FEWER STOPS AND SEARCHES BUT WHEN THEY DO THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO FIND CONTRABAND.

THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.

A DIFFERENT LENS FOR VOLLING THE PEOPLE WE HIRE.

>> YVONNE, I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE, HAVING BEEN ON THE BEAT AS AN OFFICER IN NEWARK.

WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WHEN IT CAME TO HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO INTERACT AND PERHAPS GET POSITIVE OUTCOMES FROM THE PUBLIC AS OPPOSED TO SOME MAYBE MORE AGGRESSIVE MALE COLLEAGUES.

>> I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH ANOTHER FEMALE CHIEF, AND SHE SAID THAT FEMALE OFFICERS INVENTED DE-ESCALATION BEFORE THERE WAS SUCH A TERM.

WOMEN WILL USUALLY USE THEIR VERBAL SKILLS IN ORDER TO GET COMPLIANCE IN ORDER TO GET COOPERATION INSTEAD OF TURNING TO PHYSICALITY.

SO IN MY EXPERIENCE I NOTICED THAT MY FEMALE DETECTIVES WERE ABLE TO GET COOPERATION AND TO GET INFORMATION FROM INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT HAVING TO BECOME COERCIVE IN A CONVERSATIONAL MANNER, AND BASED ON THAT, I KNEW THAT THE DECREASE OF WOMEN IN POLICING THAT I HAD BEEN NOTING WAS PROBLEMATIC, BECAUSE I KNEW THAT WE HAD VERY GOOD OUTCOMES WHEN I MYSELF WAS INVESTING IN THE WOMEN ON OUR JOB.

>> OF COURSE.

AND NOW I DO -- I WOULD BE REMISSED IF I DIDN'T MENTION THAT.

WHILE PEOPLE MIGHT BE HEARING THIS AND THINKING, THIS SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY GOOD IDEA.

MAYBE THIS IS A GREAT WAY TO ADDRESS IT.

AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE MIGHT BE THINKING OF TWO RECENT INSTANCES WHERE FEMALE POLICE OFFICERS NOT ONLY USED FORCE, BUT DEADLY FORCE, AGAINST WHAT ENDED UP BEING UNARMED CIVILIANS.

SO MAUREEN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU AND JUST GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT -- AGAIN, THE RESEARCH WAS SHOWING.

BECAUSE I'M SURE THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING, WAIT A SECOND, WHAT ABOUT FORMER OFFICER KIMBERLY POTTER?

WHAT ABOUT FORMER OFFICER AMBER GEIGER?

BOTH OF THOSE INSTANCES CIVILIANS ENDED UP DEAD.

>> WE LAUNCHED THIS INITIATIVE TWO WEEKS BEFORE KIMBERLY POTTER SHOT AND KILLED DAUNTE WRIGHT.

WE'RE NOT SAYING A -- WOMEN IS GOING TO SOLVE ALL THE POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT WE THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE CONVERSATION THAT HASN'T RECEIVED SIGNIFICANT ATTENTION AND GIVEN THAT GROWING BODY OF RESEARCH EVIDENCE ABOUT HOW WOMEN OFFICERS POLICE DIFFERENTLY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IMPROVING THE REPUTATION AND EXPERIENCE IS PART OF AN AGENCY'S REFORM STRATEGY.

>> AND YVONNE, I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE, BECAUSE ONE OF THE OTHER CRITICISMS THAT HAS BEEN OUT THERE WHEN IT COMES TO POLICING IS JUST THAT THE SIMPLE NATURE OF THE WAY THE POLICE ACADEMY IS RUN, IT EMPHASIZES TOO MUCH ON CONTROL, SUBMISSION, AND GAINING THOSE THING BY USE OF FORCE.

SO IS IT NOT JUST A CASE OF ADDING MORE WOMEN, BUT PERHAPS CHANGING THE TRAINING TECHNIQUES?

>> IT'S DEFINITELY AN ISSUE WITH THE CULTURE.

POLICE TOO OFTEN THEIR IMAGE IS PARAMILITARY, VERY MACHO DRIVEN, VERY PHYSICAL IN NATURE.

AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE SKILLS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR POLICING, OFTEN IT'S THAT COMMUNICATION SKILLS.

POLICE OFFICERS WILL GO FROM INTERPERSONAL CONFLICT TO INTERPERSONAL CONFLICT, AND MANY POLICE OFFICERS WILL BRISTLE WHEN I SAY THAT.

THEY PLAY MORE OF A ROLE OF A SOCIAL WORKER THAN THEY DO OF A PARAMILITARY OFFICER.

BUT THEIR LOG SHEETS SHOW THAT WHAT THEY DO IS HANDLE THOSE TYPE OF SITUATION WHERE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL WOULD BE INTERPERSONAL COMMUNICATION SKILLS AND NOT SO MUCH BRAWN AND FORCE.

>> OKAY, MAUREEN, THIS BRINGS ME BACK TO ANOTHER QUESTION, WHICH OBVIOUSLY, WHICH IS THE SOCIAL WORKER ASPECT.

NOW, SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR A CHANGE IN THE WAY POLICE DEPARTMENTS OPERATE OR EVEN RUN OR FUNDED, ET CETERA, SAID, NO, WE ACTUALLY DO NEED PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAINED SPECIFICALLY IN SOCIAL WORK, WHO ARE TRAINED IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE DISPUTES AND DEESCALATION OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

AND AGAIN, SOMETHING PEOPLE MIGHT POINT TO IS THE WAY MALE OFFICERS HANDLE THE INTERACTION WITH THE YOUNG WOMAN WHO WOUND UP DEAD WHEN SHE WAS TRAVELING WITH HER BOYFRIEND.

I BELIEVE THAT WAS LAST SUMMER.

THAT WAS ANOTHER EXAMPLE WHERE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, THE MALE OFFICERS DID NOT SEE WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO A FEMALE, CLEAR SIGNS OF DISTRESS AND CRISIS.

>> THE RESEARCH CERTAINLY SUGGESTS THAT'S THE CASE.

WOMEN OFFICERS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH BETTER OUTCOME FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME, ESPECIALLY VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.

AND THERE ABSOLUTELY IS RESEARCH THAT SUGGESTS THAT WOMEN JUST PERFORM DIFFERENTLY IN THAT SENSE.

I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE APPROPRIATE ATTENTION TO THE NEED FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH SPECIALIZED TRAINING THAT'S MUCH MORE IN LINE WITH SOCIAL WORK PRINCIPLES THAN LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR MANY OF THE CRISES LAW ENFORCEMENT IS CALLED OUT TO ADDRESS.

THERE IS A GROWING ATTENTION TOWARDS REIMAGINING WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES LOOK LIKE.

WE THINK OUR EFFORT IS REALLY COMPLIMENTARY TO THAT.

BECAUSE WHILE YOU'RE REIMAGINING WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES LOOK LIKE AND PERHAPS YOU'RE REPLACING POLICE OFFICERS WITH SOCIAL WORKERS FOR CERTAIN SITUATION YOU'LL HAVE A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY THAT REMAINS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO -- WHO THE POLICE ARE AND IMPROVING EXPERIENCES A WOMEN IN THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> OF COURSE.

YVONNE, FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE, AGAIN, IS IT MORE A CASE OF PEOPLE BEING PERHAPS TRAINED IN SOCIAL WORK OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES?

BECAUSE THERE'S ALSO A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT A SOCIAL WORKER IS EXPECTED TO TRAIN THAN MOST POLICE ACADEMIES ARE RUN.

>> MOST POLICE ACADEMIES TEND TO BE FIVE OR SIX MONTHS LONG, AND EXAMPLES HAVE BEEN GIVEN WHERE IT TAKES 18 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS TO BECOME A BARBER.

I DON'T THINK WE SPEND ENOUGH TIME ON OUR OFFICERS AND THE TIME THAT THEY DO HAVE IN THE ACADEMIES ARE FOCUSED ON MORE THE PHYSICAL TRAIT OF THE JOB INSTEAD OF THE COMMUNICATION SKILLS, THE DE-ESCALATION, RECOGNIZING WHEN SOMEONE MAY BE IN TRAUMA OR DISTRESS, BEING ABLE TO TALK DOWN INDIVIDUALS.

SO THERE HAS TO BE A REALIGNMENT ON WHAT WE CONSIDER MAKES A POLICE OFFICER A GOOD POLICE OFFICER AND WHAT WE REWARD.

MANY TIMES WE'LL REWARD OFFICERS WHO ARE ENGAGE IN THE A PHYSICAL ALTERCATION WHERE THEY'RE ABLE TO MAKE THE ARREST, BUT NOT REWARD THE OFFICERS THAT ARE ABLE TO DE-ESCALATE A SITUATION WHERE PHYSICAL FORCE ISN'T NEEDED AT ALL.

SO WE NEED TO RE-EXAMINE THE CULTURE AND DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF POLICE OFFICERS WE WANT, WHAT POLICING LOOKS LIKE, AND WHO GETS THE POLICE.

>> OF COURSE.

AND ALSO I WANTED TO ASK, IS THERE ANY CONCERN ABOUT BEING ABLE TO GROW THIS INITIATIVE GIVEN THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT -- WE ALSO HEAR ABOUT OFFICERS GETTING KILLED ON THE JOB, AND FEMALE OFFICERS PERHAPS FACING A UNIQUE INTERSECTIONAL, LET'S SAY, CHALLENGE BECAUSE JUST BY NATURE OF BEING A FEMALE, THEY MIGHT BE BEING PERCEIVED AS BEING EASIER TO DEAL WITH, TO HANDLE OR TO THREATEN.

>> SO, YOU CAN'T DENY THERE WILL BE INSTANCES WHERE YOU DO NEED TO GO HANDS TO HANDS WITH AN INDIVIDUAL WHERE FORCE WOULD BE NEEDED AND WE'RE NOT ADVOCATING FOR DOING AWAY WITH PHYSICAL FITNESS OR TEACHING THOSE TRAITS.

WE'RE ASKING THE CULTURE THAT I THINK IN ORDER TO EMPHASIZE TRAITS USED MORE REGULARLY IN A POLICE OFFICER'S JOB SO YOU'RE NOT EMPHASIZING A PHYSICAL FORCE.

OFTEN TIMES WE'LL GET ANECDOTES ABOUT A FEMALE OFFICER THAT WAS ASSAULTED.

POLICING HAS BEEN MALE HISTORICALLY AND MALE OFFICERS HAVE BEEN ASSAULTED SINCE THE GOING OF POLICING, RIGHT?

WE ALSO HAVE ANECDOTES WHERE POLICE OFFICERS THAT ARE WOMEN HAVE MADE POOR DECISIONS.

BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DATA WE'RE LOOKING AT RESEARCH AND LOOKING AT THE MASS AS A WHOLE OF THE DATA SET.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA SET AND UNDER THE BELL CURVE YOU WILL HAVE BETTER OUTCOMES WHEN THE TRAITS ARE ALIGNED WITH WHAT WE CONSIDER FEMALE TRAITS LIKE >> THIS REMINDS ME OF SOME OF THE WORK THAT PENNY HARRINGTON WAY BACK WHEN.

THERE USED TO BE AN ASSUMPTION THAT WOMEN POLICE OFFICERS WOULD KILL MORE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'D HAVE TO RESORT TO USING THEIR WEAPONS SOONER THAN A MAN WHO WOULD GO HANDS ON WITHOUT USING THEIR WEAPON.

25, 30 YEARS AGO -- YVONNE, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE RESEARCH CAME OUT?

IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

STARTED THE TREND OF SHOWING WOMEN OFFICERS USE LESS FORCE BECAUSE THEY USE THEIR INTELLECT AND EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE AND COMMUNICATION SKILLS BEFORE THEY USE THEIR HANDS.

>> ONE MORE QUESTION IN REGARDS TO TRAINING -- AND I DID MENTION THAT THE EMPHASIS IS LOOKING FOR WOMEN, BUT ALSO MORE DIVERSITY ON POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

AND IS THIS FIVE TO SIX MONTHS WORTH OF TRAINING IS THAT ENOUGH TO UNPACK SOME OF THE BIASES THAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE BRINGING TO THE JOB THAT CAN MAKE INTERACTING, ESPECIALLY WITH MARGINALIZED NEIGHBORHOODS, SO FRAUGHT?

YVONNE, I'LL START WITH YOU.

>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TRAINING THAT'S PACK IN THE BECAUSE OF LIABILITY REASONS.

THEY NEED TO REEVALUATE THAT TRAINING.

IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO EXTEND THE TIME THE POLICE RECRUITS ARE IN THE ACADEMY THEY NEED TO EVALUATE WHAT THE CONTENT IS AND WHAT ARE MORE EFFECTIVE AND IMPACTFUL FOR THE COMMUNITIES THEY SERVE.

>> MAUREEN, DO YOU HAVE -- YEAH?

>> I WOULD JUST ADD, WE'RE REALLY FOCUSING ON WHO THE POLICE ARE AND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE A CRITICAL COMPONENT, AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDING HOW POLICE ARE TRAINED BUM THERE'S I ALSO THINK THERE'S A THIRD ELEMENT IN REDUCING DISPARITIES AND THAT'S UNDERSTANDING WHAT STRATEGIES ARE AVAILABLE FOR POLICE OFFICERS TO USE AND UNDERSTANDING THE IMPACT OF THOSE STRATEGIES.

IN THEORY, IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE GETTING PEOPLE IN THE DOOR WHOSE SKILLS AND ABILITIES ARE ACTUALLY IN LINE WITH EFFECTIVE POLICING YOU'RE TRAINING THEM APPROPRIATELY, AND THEN YOU'RE IMPROVING DATA PROTECTION TO UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE HAVING A DISPARATE IMPACT ON THE PEOPLE YOU'RE SERVING, OVER TIME ALL THOSE THINGS TOGETHER SHOULD WORK TO REDUCE THE PROBLEMS WE'RE SEEING IN POLICING.

>> WE TALKED A LOT ABOUT JUST THE NATURE OF THE JOB, BUT I'M ALSO INTEREST ABOUT THE CHANGING OF THE CULTURE.

MAUREEN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO AND GET AN IDEA OF, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BARRIERS PEOPLE MIGHT BE FACING OR PERHAPS SOME OF THE PERCEIVED BARRIERS WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN AND MINORITIES, NONTRADITIONAL PEOPLE ENTERING INTO THIS FIELD?

>> SO, I'M EXCITED TO HEAR FROM YVONNE ON THIS, BECAUSE SHE LIVED IT, AND SHE SPEAKS ELOQUENTLY ABOUT HER EXPERIENCE.

BUT YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE REALLY FOCUSING ON IS JUST DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE IMPACTS OF THE FACT THAT THIS CULTURE WAS HISTORICALLY BUILT BY MEN, WHITE MEN SPECIFICALLY.

SO THERE ARE OF COURSE PROBLEMS WITH SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

THERE ARE STUDIES THAT SHOW OVER 90% OF WOMEN SUFFER SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THEIR CAREER.

BUT JUST TO SUGGEST THIS ISN'T A PLACE THAT'S FOR YOU.

IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL BUT JUST A REFLECTION OF THE FACT THAT POLICE DID NOT TRADITIONALLY HAVE ROLES IN POLICE LEADERSHIP.

THINGS LIKE EQUIPMENT NOT BEING APPROPRIATELY FIT TO THE MOTHER'S BODY, A NURSING MOTHER NOT HAVING A PLACE TO PUMP WHEN SHE GETS BACK ON THE JOB.

WE'RE TRYING TO HIGHLIGHT POLICING STRATEGIES THAT CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CULTURE THAT ADD UP TO MAKE IT TO A PROFESSION THAT'S NOT DESIGNED TO SUPPORT THE UNIQUE NEEDS OF WOMEN, AND WE'RE WORKING TO CHANGE IT THAT WAY.

>> YVONNE, IF YOU COULD ADD ON WITH YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE?

>> I THINK AT TIMES THERE MAY BE A DEVALUE OF THE POLICING YOU GET BASED ON GENDER.

RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT WOMEN ARE LESS LIKELY TO MAKE ARRESTS, LESS LIKELY TO MAKE SUMMONS, ISSUE SUMMONS.

YET WHEN YOU INTERVIEW CITIZENS, THEY OVERWHELMINGLY WILL GIVE HIGH MARKS AND HIGH SATISFACTION RATES TO FEMALE OFFICERS.

NOW WHEN YOU ANALYZE THOSE OFFICERS AND COMPARE THEM BASE ON GENDER, THE OFFICERS THAT WILL HAVE THE MORE ARRESTS AND SUMMONS ARE SEEN AS MORE PRODUCTIVE AND OVERWHELMINGLY THOSE TEND TO BE MALE OFFICER.

POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE MEASURING AND WHY THOSE MEASURES ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM AND DECIDE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO WEIGHT HEAVIER AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO WEIGHT LESS WHEN LOOKING AT HOW THAT IMPACTS THE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU'RE SENDING POLICE OFFICERS INTO A DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITY BECAUSE THERE ARE -- IS A HIGH LEVEL OF VIOLENCE, ARE YOU REALLY GETTING THE BEST RETURN FOR YOUR DOLLARS, FOR YOUR INVESTMENT BY GOING IN AND BLANKETING THAT AREA WITH ARRESTS?

IN SOME INSTANCES IT'S PERVERSE INCENTIVES.

WE HAVE TO ANALYZE HOW WE -- AND WHETHER THEY'RE BEING MOST PRODUCTIVE TO THE COMMUNITY, OR NOT, AND HOW?

>> MAUREEN, YOU I JUST WANT TO BUILD ON.

THAT WE ARE AS WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION BEING CONSCIOUS OF OUR LANGUAGE AND USING SOME EUPHEMISMS, DIVERSE COMMUNITIES, MARGINALIZED, ET CETERA, BUT REALLY BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE IN NEWARK, HOW IMPORTANT IS THE DIVERSITY, AND HOW INTERSECTIONAL SHOULD THAT DIVERSITY BE, WHERE WE'RE NOT JUST TALK ABOUT GETTING BLACK PEOPLE, BUT BLACK WOMEN.

DO WE NEED TO HAVE OFFICERS THAT ARE OPENLY GAY, TRANS, FROM THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY?

HOW IMPORTANT IS DIVERSITY, AND WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT?

>> IS THAT FOR YVONNE?

>> SORRY, YVONNE.

SORRY IF I SAID MAUREEN.

SORRY.

>> IT'S OKAY.

I THINK LIVED EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT.

I AM LATINA.

I WAS BORN IN PUERTO RICO.

MY PARENTS CAME TO NEWARK WHEN THEY HAD THE UPRISINGS.

AND THEY REMEMBER BEING STOPPED BY THE POLICE.

THEY REMEMBER GETTING RELOCATED, PICKED UP, AND DROPPED OFF IN BAD NEIGHBORHOODS, SMACKED AROUND BY THE POLICE.

SO I GREW UP LISTENING TO THOSE STORIES, AND IT IMPACTED THE WAY I POLICE PD I KNEW THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IN AND OUT.

I KNEW THE HISTORY.

SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE POLICE OFFICERS THAT ARE INTERSECTIONAL WHOSE LIVED EXPERIENCE ALIGNS WITH THOSE THEY ARE POLICING.

IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE POLICING THAT UNDERSTANDS THOSE STORIES.

>> AND MAUREEN, IS THERE ANY DATA THAT BACKS UP WHAT YVONNE WAS JUST SAYING?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S REALLY STRONG RESEARCH OUT THERE ACTUALLY ABOUT SORT OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE DEPARTMENT REFLECTING THE COMMUNITY IT SERVES FOR THINGS LIKE PUBLIC TRUST AND LEGITIMACY.

AND I WILL SAY, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DO THROUGH 30 BY 30 IS HELP POLICE DEPARTMENTS UNDERSTAND BROADLY, NOT JUST ABOUT GENDER BUT RACE, ETHNICITY AND OTHER DEMOGRAPHIC GENDERS HOW THEY'RE IMPACTING CERTAIN GROUPS AND FAILING TO REACH GROUPS.

WE'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT THOUGH WE'RE PRETTY EARLY IN THE INITIATIVE, IF AN AGENCY SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTS OUR PLEDGE THEY'LL BE ABLE TO SUPPORT A LOT OF DIFFERENT DEMOGRAPHIC GROUPS, NOT JUST WOMEN.

AND I'M REALLY GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE IMPORTANCE OF INTERSECTIONALITY.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE SORT OF HYPERAWARE OF AT THE INITIATIVE.

WE TRY NOT TO PRESENT WOMEN AS A HOMOGENOUS GROUP AND ACKNOWLEDGE THERE ARE MANY OTHER FACTORS, PARTICULARLY FOR BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN THAT MILWAUKEE THEIR EXPERIENCE EVEN MORE DIFFERENT THAN WOMEN OVERALL.

>> I'M ALSO WONDERING WHEN IT COMES TO THE DATA OF HOW POLICE -- THE RESULTS THAT YOU GET.

ARE THERE ANY AGENCIES THAT HAVE SO FAR GOTTEN INVOLVED WHO SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT IN THIS LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD REALLY HELP US.

USUALLY WHEN WE HEAR ABOUT POLICE DEPARTMENTS, IT'S NOT GOOD NEWS.

>> I MEAN, YVONNE, I'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS.

WE HAVE AN OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE RESPONSE.

YOU KNOW, ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND, AND WE DIDN'T TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT OUR ORIGIN STORY, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YVONNE CAME TO ME WHEN I WAS AT THE DOJ ABOUT FOUR YEARS AGO AND SORT OF POINTED OUT HOW UNDERREPRESENTED WOMEN ARE AND HOW MUCH THE RESEARCH IS GROWING THAT THEY'RE UNIQUELY VALUABLE.

WE SORT OF PULLED THIS TOGETHER OVER TIME LARGELY UNFUNDED UNTIL THE LAST YEAR.

IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAD A RECRUITMENT BUDGET OF OUR OWN TO BRING AGENCIES IN OR A MARKETING CAMPAIGN.

NOTHING LIKE THAT.

IT'S REALLY JUST BEEN WORD OF MOUTH AND THE ADVOCACY OF PEOPLE IN POLICE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS.

WE HAVE STRONG REPRESENTATION OF WOMEN LEADERS IN OUR AGENCIES BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF MEN CHIEFS WHO BELIEVE THE RESEARCH AND BELIEVE IN THE IMPORTANCE OF DOING THE WORK WELL.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN UP AND RUNNING FOR A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AND A HALF.

WE HAVE ALMOST 200 ANYONESES AT THIS POINT.

>> OKAY, AND YVONNE, YOUR TAKE?

>> I THINK THAT -- IS REALLY BEING IMPACTFUL.

PEOPLE ARE REALLY BUYING IN.

MOST OF OUR SOLUTIONS ARE LOW COST OR NO COST SOLUTIONS, SO MONEY CAN'T BE AN EXCUSE.

ONE OF OUR DEAR FRIENDS CHIEF KENNY CLARY FROM BELLVIEW, NEBRASKA HAS SHOWN YOU DON'T WATER DOWN YOUR STANDARD BECAUSE YOU'RE RECRUITING.

PEOPLE HE PERSONALLY RECRUITED WON ALL THE AWARDS.

SO HE HIMSELF ANNIHILATED ANY ARGUMENT THAT BY RECRUITING A DIVERSE POOL YOU WERE WATERING DOWN POLICING.

AND SO WE APPRECIATE PEOPLE LIKE HIM BEING VERY VOCAL AND CREATING THIS COMMUNITY OF PRACTICE WHERE OTHER AGENCIES CAN LEARN FROM THE EXAMPLES OF THEIR PEERS.

>> AND I DO WANT TO HEAR, ACTUALLY, MORE OF THE ORIGIN STORY, BUT QUICKLY MAUREEN, SINCE WE ARE AIRING IN THE METROPOLITAN AREA, I UNDERSTAND THE NYPD IS INVOLVED IN THIS TO SOME EXTENT?

>> YES, AND I WILL SAY -- SO, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER TANYA MISENHOLDER WHO WAS FORMERLY DEPUTY FOR DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION IN THE NYPD, SHE WAS ON OUR STEERING KEERJT HELPED US THINK THROUGH HOW BEST TO BUILD AND PLEDGE.

NYPD WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO SIGN ON, AND I THINK THAT'S MADE INTEREST IN OTHER AGENCIES PARTICIPATE IN THE WORK.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S ACTUALLY GET INTO -- WITH THE FEW MINUTES WE HAVE LEFT -- BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ORIGIN STORY OF THE ORGANIZATION.

YVONNE, I WANT TO START WITH YOU WITH, LIKE, WHEN WAS THE MOMENT YOU SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE CLEARLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AND I HAVE AN IDEA?

>> SO, IN 2014, I WAS IMPLEMENTING A HIRING PLAN IN NEWARK TO HIRE 400 OFFICERS VERY QUICKLY.

WE WERE DOWN 400 OFFICERS BECAUSE OF LAYOFFS IN 2010 AND WE WERE LOSING LARGE GROUPS OF WOMEN IN THE ACADEMY FOR REASONS THAT I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND.

AND I TRIED TO RAISE THE FLAG AND NO ONE REALLY SEEMED CONCERNED.

THEIR ATTITUDE WAS, IF THEY CAN'T CUT IT THEN THEY DON'T NEED TO BE COPS.

THEY WERE BEING DISMISSED WITHIN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS BECAUSE OF PHYSICAL FITNESS.

I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A PROBLEM ISOLATED WITH NEWARK, THE STATE, OR THE NATION.

BECAUSE I WAS WORKING WITH MAUREEN AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE I HAD ACCESS TO THE DATA AND RESEARCH AND I FOUND THAT THE NUMBER OF WOMEN WERE NOT ONLY STAGNANT IN NEWARK OR IN NEW JERSEY, BUT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

AND THE NUMBER HADN'T MOVED MUCH IN ABOUT 30 YEARS.

IT HAD BEEN STUCK AROUND 12%, WHEN THERE WAS THIS HUGE BODY OF LITERATURE SHOWING ALL THE BENEFITS.

NOBODY POINTED TO THE BENEFITS.

THE ATTITUDE WAS, IF THEY CAN'T CUT IT THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE HERE.

MAYBE YOU NEED TO REPRIORITIZE.

IF NOT, YOU HAVE A MANDATE FROM THE COMMUNITY TO CHANGE THAT AND MAKE POLICING LOOK LIKE WHAT THE COMMUNITY DEMANDS.

THE COMMUNITY ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING SERVED, SO IT'S NOT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT SHOULD BE DICTATING.

IT SHOULD BE THE COMMUNITIES THAT DICTATE WHAT IS THE TYPE OF POLICING THEY WANT.

>> AND MAUREEN?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I WILL SAY, WHEN YVONNE FIRST BROUGHT THIS TO US WHEN I WAS AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, I THINK WE WERE ALL REALLY SURPRISED.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY HAD RAISED IT, AND YVONNE HAD BEEN DOING SUCH GREAT WORK IN NEW JERSEY TO TRY AND RETAIN THE WOMEN RECRUITS AND MAKE SURE THEY WERE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THE SYSTEM AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS.

YVONNE AND I JOINED FORCES AND HOSTED A NATIONAL SUMMIT IN 2018 WHERE WE BROUGHT TOGETHER 100 FOLKS FROM WOMEN COMMISSIONERS IN MAJOR METRO DEPARTMENTS TO WOMEN WITH FIVE YEARS ON THE JOB TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND, WHAT'S HAPPENING?

WHAT ARE YOUR EXPERIENCES?

WHAT ARE THE BARRIERS TO YOUR OWN SUCCESS IN THIS ENVIRONMENT, AND WHAT CAN WE BE DOING, BUILDING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE?

RESEARCHERS, POLICYMAKERS, FEDERAL OFFICIALS IN THE ROOM, AND THE REPORT FOR THAT SUMMIT REALLY LAID THE GROUND WORK FOR YVONNE AND I TO KEEP GOING.

I WILL SAY, THAT SUMMIT LAUNCHED A BIT OF A COMMUNITY OF PRACTICE.

30 BY 30 EXISTS BECAUSE THERE'S A COALITION MOSTLY OF WOMEN WHO BELIEVE STRONGLY IN IMPORTANCE OF DOING WORK, MOST OF WHOM HAVE COME TOGETHER PRO BONO.

>> ANY WOMAN WHO MIGHT BE CONSIDERING, THIS IS A PATH, A PLACE I CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN MY COMMUNITY, BUT I'M NOT QUITE SURE, DO I CUT IT?

AM I THE RIGHT TYPE?

ET CETERA.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO A WOMAN WHO'S PERHAPS THINK ABOUT THIS BUT NOT SURE?

>> AS A PERSONAL ANECDOTE MYSELF I CAN TELL YOU THAT COMMUNITIES NEED YOUR TYPE OF POLICING.

YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER, SO REACH OUT TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENT, FIND OUT WHEN THE APPLICATION IS COMING OUT, AND APPLY AND START PREPARING.

THERE'S NO SUPERHUMAN FEAT THAT'S REQUIRED TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER.

ALL IT REQUIRES IS THAT YOU'RE A GOOD PERSON.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO THANK BOTH OF MY GUESTS, YVONNE, FORMER POLICE CHIEF OF THE NEWARK POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THANK YOU.

AND ALSO THANK YOU TO MAUREEN McGOFF, CHIEF OF STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AT THE NYU SCHOOL OF LAWS POLICING PROJECT.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US HERE ON "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.